Lyrical Lounge Forum Training Day

I had this idea about creating a contest that might or might not be interesting. What if a veteran on the cafe would coach a newbie on their skills. By vet I mean you have been doing this for a while. Writing ,rhyming, freestyling here or in the real world. That person would show someone else the basics and help write or get there inner lyricist out. This way a person could look for a pupil and check out their work and the same with seeking a mentor of sorts if they want to enter. I haven't worked it all out but I was kicking the idea around and thought it was original. Comments?

I think this is a great concept! I think that there are many in this lounge capable of sharing tactics on writing hip hop.

Let me know how you want to go about doing this and we can see what we can do.

Any of you out there that want to learn, let us know. Hip hop can be in any style that you want. Your personal style would be taken into consideration. Don't feel like you will get bashed for what you put forth. This is a place to learn and get better. That is why we challenge each other so often.

I think you have a great start of something here H.a.m. :O)

Thank you for the input! Let me know how I can help. ::cool::

READ THE FIRST SIDE NOTE if you are already intimidated by the size of this post...
at least do that much

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Great Idea...

Not that i read your proposal and first assumed...i would take the mentor role...but since i do have experience...why not leak some advice on anyone willing to soak it up...

For those who dont know::

-my credentials-
I got one award in a hip hop challenge..second place

an i stay posting in the lyrical lounge...
battles: Beat Esco
Lost in a 2 on 1 battle wth Nik and Zeru...it was like 200 rounds...(4rnds or something realistically)

I have accumulated a dozen or more freestyle/written raps in my profile..
two or three people subscribe to me..

-main strengths-
multi-syllable rhyme schemes
punches
concepts
most of the time...flow

-weakness/s-
>i tend to include a lot of filler (lack of substance and/or corny lyrics)--mostly in my freestyles
>Forcing concepts--i can go overboard with the 'concentration of double/triple layers of complexity...('too much pulp)
>I'll succumb to commercial rap--(when im bored)--(thatz the downfall of battling on teenage rap sites)
>being consistantly on point

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Its hard to say that i dont have a big head about my own lyrics..(who doesn't though about their own...right??)But with all the cards on the table...i can honestly say i've got a lot of *sand traps and flaws in my technique that i am dealing with...(*hence the profile pic)

If anyone is serious about aspiring to include rap/rhythmic lyrics into there repertoire of writing..then i have but only a few humble suggestions and a lot of ideas to get you aimed in the right direction...


******Side Note--This may look like a lot to read but dont think your eyes are fooling you...this is long as HELL..it will drone on time to time. Its a mix of personal opinions on writing rap lyrics with some common knowledge any experienced person who writes rap lyrics would know. I included real samples of other people an my lyrics, with some off the top lyrics to serve as examples....those of who are ambitious and motivated to start writing rap lyrics...i suggest you read word for word, everything. If your not new to the game and are experienced with rap lyrics...then just skim through and take what you need. if i would describe everything that follows in one sentence it would say....

One sentence isnt possible...

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first off---i know rap lyrics can be defined from Eminem, 50 cent, Lil wayne, Jay-z, jedi mind tricks etc...and not to say that they do or do not have the art mastered...(i dont think anyone really does) but one thing they do have in common, is different styles, you can adapt to learning the art of rap lyrics through any means necessary, but do not, do not ever, under any circumstances, (cardinal rule)copy someone else's style and or bite lyrics.....I know this is text and not audio...so its hard to outline how your comming across...so all i'm saying is that you must make an effort to be unique, creative and original...

Hypocritical commentary--As for beginners and others alike, when first learning---the cardinal rule can be bent...contradictively to the rule...it might help you to base your first lyrics on someone elses structure/style/and or way of dropping a verse..take what you can learn from those you look up too...and then seperate it, to be put into your own style...


++--A Condensed Compass--++

Red= Suggestions on the process of getting started...

Blue= Concrete tips and ways on forming a basic structure of a verse and/or a couple bars

Green= Lyric writing exercises and topics

Orange= The struggle, basically my trials and tribulations experienced in my own words provided with examples and actual pieces of work



*Curtain is drawn*

Suggestion 1.--Evaluate yourself...degrade and praise your current caliber of skill.....(look up at my example under my credentials)
You need to know where you are with your skills and capabilities before you can readily know and achieve where your going or want to be. Basically be realistic, whether or not your new to the game or you've been actively battling and writing for a while..
Put your strengths and weakness/s into a list.. ideally 10 on each side..or as many as your willing to acknowledge...

2>--With any skill/craft such as writing stories, poems and or rap lyrics..you can alwayz break certain aspects of each one into milestones/categories.
Example:
>Poetry- Rhyme schemes, structure, syntax, rhetoric, Form, syllabic meter, types of poetry etc....
>Rap lyrics- (very similiar) rhyme scheme(multi syllable, internal, ending), punches, meta4's, flow, style, complexity..battle rap, commercial rap, underground etc...

My point is that you should get familiar with the fundamentals and background of rap...and then go for an extra serving like (plugs in a well known fat person) at a buffet...and really try and understand the complexity of each and all the elements...Fulfill yourself to recognize the depth and potential that each category has on being a real strength in your own style as a whole, vice versa with the crippling effect if your worthless at one of them..
in my examples...i know i missed a lot of steps in the overall components in the examples...but i'm sure you get the jist of it...

Suggestion 2 should help with suggestion 1 if you arent sure how to grade yourself on your current capabilities...

To sum up suggestion 2, take the weakness/s you found in your list...add some more if my examples left some open windows...and then organize/prioritize the ones you want to further advance lyrically speaking...for the short term or even the long term...depending on how serious you are in wanting to excel.

3>-- Actually practice writing lyrics...mainly the type of lyrics that will help you climb the ladder of each one your weakness's. You can practice by freestyling and/or taking the time to put some thought into your lyrics..both have their benefits..and downfalls...but if you do both when practicing, i'm almost certain that the downfalls will be canceled out.

4>--If you find yourself writing horrible, corny, doesnt make sense, "what the f**k did i just write" and/or "i'm no good at this and i'm giving up" type lyrics..then take a step back and try to determine the reason...are you lacking flow??, a rhyming pattern, cohesive diction, substance, and etc or all the above... whatever the reason...your best bet is too first listen to or read other peoples lyrics as if they were your own...from begining bar to the last rhyming syllable...Focuz on pretending that you really wrote it and imagine the train of thought that the real writer must have undergone to achieve results...;such as flow, hard punches, story line, rhyming, and the verse as a whole....all minds i'm sure are unique, some artist write with a complex equation to put down exactly what they want to portray in verse...others just let it flow naturally, and whatever coherently makes sense to rhyme and spit about...gets written...From one side to the spectrum to the other...there are probably an infinite amount of ways to write a verse...and you just need to find yours...DO NOT get discouraged by anything you write or how long its taking you to catch on...if your on edge about to quit...JUST read and remember suggestion five and the sample of what i first ever wrote down below..

5>--Practice consistently and set benchmarks in real time for your desire for specific results...No need to spend 24/7, dont go to work, skipping showers, and/or strenuous amounts of time on learning how to "rap". From a couple bars to a short verse to a quick freestyle, is all that it really takes to progress positively. when your alone rhyme words out loud, look at items in your house and rhyme about them and basically every small bit of practice will help...

SO practice consistantly....
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::::::The Meat and Bones:::::::

***side note- Realize the following subject matter mostly and mainly applies to TEXT lyrics...I will imply certain things that can be untrue if I we were talking about AUDIO...like---what flows good in text usually always flows good in audio..but if a reader reads lyrics that seem to not to rhyme...then who knows, the writer might be able to make it flow real nice if spoken or while 'rapping' on a mic...same relation applies to impact and delivery of content

I can break down any one of my verses onto a scale made up of about 7 different components...

Flow,
multi-syllabe rhymes,
punches,
complexity,
subject matter
Delivery
Creativeness

Each component interacts and in more ways then one coincides with one another...
Not that those components embody the perfect verse, but you can basically put the countless number of different aspects of a verse into one of those components/categories..

Flow--

To achieve smooth flow, you need to be aware of your syllable count. while most readers can take the time and find a writers flow, no matter what format or style of rhyming their doing, the syllable count in most cases can help the reader find the key to unlocking a writers flow...

Off the top examples...

The day passes and i sit back an relax
with an outlet of respiratory damage i blaze a sack

That quick rhyme consisted of a one syllable rhyme...lax and sack...
and also note the slight effect of 'respiratory' on the flow...it could flow well or bad, depending on the reader..but to me it sort of fumbles the flow...

Time flies so i sit back and relax to engage the past,
with natures gift to lift me high, i just blaze a sack

Three matching syllable rhyme...gage the past, blaze a sack
Notice the overall feeling of rhythm...

* side note-- Its not for me to say one syllable rhymes shouldnt be done...but being able to use matching multiple syllable rhymes to me, definitly gives it a more rhythmic and 'rap' feel...

Flow can be enhanced through internal rhymes, ending rhymes and by using different patterns...

example- internal rhymes and ending rhymes

With certain flaws, the world to shut their jaws, an still withstand the laws,
of chaos an war, while i stick my middle finger at it all, with one hand on balls

stand the laws, hand on balls= ending rhyme(three matching syllable count)
notice that hand on balls wasnt worded perfectly...in a grammatical sense it should read 'hand on my balls'. By exluding 'my' i kept the matching syllables to rhyme...and this is rap...not an essay...grammar is the least of most rappers worries...

flaws, jaws, all, = internal rhyme
notice that the internal rhyme matches the last syllable in the ending rhyme...
it is one way to better enhance the flow of text lyrics...

Second example- internal rhymes and ending rhymes cont'd

Liberty, what its worth to me, before the Quote:

hearse to cease

, my life an blood
has an urgency since my moms paternity, to be all that i'm worth before i reach the light above...

life an blood, light above...= ending rhymes...(three matching syllable count)
worth to me, hearse to cease, urgency, ternity,= internal rhymes( three matching syllable count)
Notice 'Liberty' in the first line, and 'worth' at the end of the second line...those have similiar syllables that rhyme with the internal rhyme..but they dont match even with the syllable count in the internal rhyme and/or the ending rhyme..but they do add cadence to the overall read...
The ending rhyme and internal rhyme had no relation to one another in terms of rhyming....its really up to the writer to switch up different patterns and ways of rhyming to fit his style of what rubs them the right way...

Just keep in mind that the structure of flow in rap lyrics can benefit the overall cadence immensely. Multiple syllables that match when rhyming are signs of good structure and yadadada...its really up to the style of 'artist/rapper' to rhyme whatever which way...i just feel that this way works best...

example- of mismatching syllables that rhyme

Married to a life of crime demands fees
she's my girl and i want her hand to squeeze

mands fees, hand to squeeze= mismatching syllables in the ending rhyme
it doesnt flow horribly, but to me it just seems off...in certain cases i will add internal rhyme to make it work...to my liking...

Format and or the way you set up the verse will mostly effect how easy it is for a reader to find your flow..You can set up a verse in paragraph form, bar form, and cutting your lines off to add impact and effect..

What determines on how easy a reader will find your flow is based on their past experiences...I've been on different sites galore for rap lyrics..and writerscafe is different from most sites that ive been too..

example:

>Paragraph form is obvious...

-And this is a favorate of mine...Every word you saw in the dictionary dont need to be applyed...If you cant use it the way its made...Nobody will follow and you'll look like a dickhead anyway... Copyright Zeru

These lines an excerpt from a diss that Zeru came at me with. In paragraph form, its up to the reader to recognize the rhyming words that are located somewhat randomly throughout each line..Paragraph form gives the writer freedom to start and stop a rhyme when ever they feel with no real option for seperating intensities of a concept/punch/and or section of the verse...To the writer it can be the most natural way to write, but overall paragraph form is my least favorite...

>bar form is a format in which i'm most comfortable with...

-The Borders Of A Victim In Dementia, They Hold No Solid Lines
Staring Eye To Eye, The Lost Focus Reflects An Old But Vivid Mind
(one bar)
The Way He Lays Text To Protect Himself, Its Latex The Ribbed Kind
Self Destructive And Cautious, I Feel Nauseous, When I Grip Mines
(one bar)

bar form gives a standard structure to a verse...although, it can have limitations..
it can provide the writer with a restrictive feeling...The writer is forced to condense concepts and thoughts around the bar...It is challenging to me and its what i'm used too...While reading a verse that is in bar form, the reader will know when to expect the ending rhyme.

>cutting your lines off for impact and effect is what i've seen most people on writerscafe practice...along with paragraph form it is the ideal way of delivering a freestyle verse...

-To be crucified at someone else's hands
I am free from, 'Sin...',
Now let's see if he can rise again -
With the plethoric weight of a coup de grace
That he thought he could take,
Petitioning him to stay in the grave...
"Rest, Sin... Rest"...
It's over; Can't you see?
But he's flailing in vain attempts to breathe
Copyright Nikaule

This was an excerpt from a diss to me written by Nikaule, notice each line ends with a word that rhymes, when i do it like this, its mostly so the reader can find the flow..a bi product of this format is also an enhanced impact and effect of words....this form is what paragraph form would look like if you just pressed 'enter' at each ending rhyme...i use this form mainly for freestyles..

Mainly i wanted to portray the effect of using different formats on how well a reader can find your flow...the bi products of format can be discussed later..see delivery




Summary of Flow- Do what flows to you, but consider the rhyme pattern and verse structure...meaning have it or dont have it....or change it up randomly or methodically to suit your style...Dont write for the reader, adapt to what works for you...Although recieving feedback from other people might be affected on how they read your verse..


Multi-syllable rhymes--

What was already discussed in the flow section, multi-syllable rhymes are mainly for the melody and the rhythmic appeal to the reader...

Rhyming lyrics are known to have a restricted quality...not that its true completely...but most haters of rap lyrics complain about how rappers lyrics can only embody what rhymes, as if the meaning of a rap verse is handicap to freedom of speech, when compared to spoken word or free verse poetry. I propose that, thatz a myth. To me i feel that with rap lyrics...the "sky is the limit"...

as people first start to write rap lyrics...they sort of look like this

the clouds are grey
like the lunch table treys
and i must say
before i go to lay
that you will pay

the rhythm has a monotone ambience. It lacks the creative qualities of a more complex rhyme structure..
And if you notice the content is God awful...becuz most beginners arent familiar with all the rhyming options they have for the word 'grey'..so they succumb to fusing unrelated lines together with only one thing in common..the end rhyme. This scenario is how and why haters of rap lyrics were able to create a myth about the disability of rap lyrics with meaning...I can see their side of it, but mainly i see it as a challenge. If you push your creative abilities, you can achieve great content with a superb cadence when juxtaposed to spoken word or free verse poetry..

Now as we move into Multi-syllable rhymes, the myth seems to scratch at the heels of our shoes...When your writing matching multi syllable rhymes your limited to forming lines that follow a consistant structure...Logic would tell you that the possibilities have shrunken...but i still continue to preach in opposition to the myth. They say 'a picture can be a thousand words'. which can be taken in a number of ways...think of which words are in that thousand.

Already wIth the english language, grammar, and coherent demand in diction i believe that words can only express meanings within its own parameters...whether its essay, poetry, story, rap lyrics, or the caption on a Monet painting, etc...Like the effect of iambic pentameter in poetry i see the same correlation in matching multies in rap lyrics...Shakespeare was creative enough to form art out of words with discipline and a consistant structure...Rap lyrics are similiar in that they require discipline. Consistant structre isnt a requirement of rap lyrics...but rap lyrics with matching multi syllable rhymes, definitly requires a specific type of structure in regards to rhyming.

Summar- Multi- syllable rhymes is apart of what gives rap audio life...So when a reader reads multi syllable rhymes and recites them out loud or in their head, it widens the cadence appeal of rap lyrics..so with maybe 2-maybe 7 percent truth to the myth, i further implicate that matching multi syllable rhymes has no real limits besides your mental capacity...

If you need examples of matching multi syllable rhymes...See excerpts in FLOW above...

Punches--

The strawberry in a stroodle, the feeling of safety of having your own pit bull. That is what punches do for rap lyrics...at least in my eyes...I would branch further on my metaphors but i rather avoid extending what already seems to be a never ending task.

which is the task of breaking down how to write rap lyrics for beginners...

just know punches are the cream of the crop...ha

they're key to any real substance of rap lyrics...for other forms of writing rap lyrics like topicals, punches dont usually play a big role...But for battle rap, hype songs, and most rap songs in general...PUNCHES are vital...


Intermission


If i decide to keep writing this personal and bias guide to writing rap lyrics...I will continue where i left off. The structure of a punch, from the set up all the way to the kick to both ball sacks effect that a punch should have...

If anyone actually made it this far as to read this...

Feedback on if this helped at all would solidify any thoughts i had on finishing what i started...Let me know if a lot of it seems jumbled, confusing, worded horribly, or all the above...Grammatically i already know this is an abomination...but honestly i could care not very much. No feedback on grammar...please

If you dont want to wait for when i'm going to finish this...and if you truely want help on writing rap lyrics...just text me on AOL...screen name= TAPHOUS
I would like to think i'm capable enough of providing a step ladder to anyone who is interested...

Still somehow i doubt anyone has made it this far to read...ha

i just wanted to say, i'm highly interested in seeing more people in the lyrical lounge dropping freestyles and battling...It seems to be on and off in there..

PROPS to H.A.M for starting this thread..the concept definitely has some solid logic to it..

You pointed out a couple things like people seeking out other people and reading each others work. That would a be a great solution for the lack of Feedback which definitely seems to be an itch that u cant reach, that most people on writerscafe.org have. Its not so much annoying but how is anyone gonna advance as a writer without feedback.???

SO

To add another idea to the Training Day thread..

One mentor commits to showing and teaching a new kid the ropes...while a different mentor does the same with a different new kid...

Then we hold a battle

New kid Vs New kid

The winner theoretically will be the one who had the better mentor/along with other important factors. Other important factors being the varying potential levels of the new kids, initial level of competence, etc.etc..

Just a thought

it seems a battle like that would be really interesting to read.

Who else agrees?



SINceer


PS..

**CORRECTION

To a section in FLOW

Second example- internal rhymes and ending rhymes cont'd

Liberty, what its worth to me, before the hearse to cease, my life an blood
has an urgency since my moms paternity, to be all that i'm worth before i reach the light above...

life an blood, light above...= ending rhymes...(three matching syllable count)
worth to me, hearse to cease, urgency, ternity,= internal rhymes( three matching syllable count)
Notice 'Liberty' in the first line, and 'worth' at the end of the second line...those have similiar syllables that rhyme with the internal rhyme..but they dont match even with the syllable count in the internal rhyme and/or the ending rhyme..but they do add cadence to the overall read...
The ending rhyme and internal rhyme had no relation to one another in terms of rhyming....its really up to the writer to switch up different patterns and ways of rhyming to fit his style of what rubs them the right way...

I commend you for taking the time to write that, and explain how this works step by step. I wouldn't have had the patience... lol... I think that it was very well thought out and highly informational. I'll comment more later...

This was very well written Sin. I'm going to add my two cents...Really well written.

yeah Sin just made me feel like an a*s. if someone was like "teach me to rap" i'd hand em a Common cd and be like "listen and learn, b*****s"

Dayum....Sin broke it doooooown! I think that H.A.M. and Sin should get together and start the process for this. I think the rest of us are down.

Troy, we all know you are lazy. lol. Your pic says it all. ::tongue::

Jus playin.

my pic is gangsta! damn haters

I'll teach somebody my style of writing...who wants to be a disciple...lol

Good looks on all the feedback...........Four hours of writing is hard to come by...especially with a pot headz attention span...

I'll most likely start back where i finished...once i get a hold of some riddilin or somethin...

An yes..H.A.M.....

it looks like zeru or I are willing to workout some training regimens with you...

Now all we need is someone else...so we can get a battle going

Paging all apprentices to the forum...

*twiddles thumbs*

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If one of ya'll construct a message for this, I will send out a message to all the group members. ::smile::

Just let me know. Sin, it seems like you got the grasp on all of this. Let's see what we can do with this idea. It could bring many people together. H.A.M. if you want to work on the message, that's great. Or, if you feel another could do it, call out who you feel is best fit.

Sinceer said

"To add another idea to the Training Day thread..

One mentor commits to showing and teaching a new kid the ropes...while a different mentor does the same with a different new kid...

Then we hold a battle

New kid Vs New kid "

That's how I pictured it. Like tournament style and the winner goes on to the next round. I haven't been thru here a lot but for this I'll make a comitment.  

i wanna be taught. not cuz i think i need help, but because i wanna know who's a vet. lol