The Review Club Forum Genre

OKay so I thought I would start a thread where we could all talk about anything and everything genre. Mystery, Fantasy, Science Fiction, Romance.... whatever. So enjoy and speak up we wanna know what you think.


Okay so I have a question to start things off. Obviously language and sex are an easy way out, but if you don't consider that what is the difference between Young adult and Adult writing? What makes it different, how do they feel, how do they look? Is it all concept, or just content?

CC and I sat up all night talking about this and it's a tricky thing to quantify. I want to know what you think.

Thanks and Happy Writing.

Gabe

Wow - I'm actually able to get around the site right now. (It's almost 4:30 a.m. Wonder if that has anything to do with it?) ::tongue::

Okay - your question about Young Adult vs Adult writing. (By young adult, I assume you mean teens.) I've thought a bit about that. I don't write young adult stories (at least not intentionally). I imagine, though, that it has to do with how young adults approach problems, life, and relationships. Young adults are, at first, a fairly intolerant bunch. They like to think they're rebels, as long as it's something their parents hate. But they all dress like lemmings and overdramatize problems. They are quick to make outcasts of people who don't 'fit in'. They tend to oversimplify situations, but a pimple on the night of the dance is worth a jump off the nearest bridge. To write for them, you have to understand them. Good luck!

Thanks for responding Belle...

So is writing for teens that simple? Is it the outlook on the world, or is it the dichotomy of the relationships in the book, ie... parents vs. kids, authority figures vs. kids. With that thought then how do you write books for an adult audience based on say high school kids? A perfect example is Harry Potter. While some of you guys may have an opinio of the quality of writing it still shows that a woman can be worth $2 billion and be a success while still writing for a diverse audience. In fact I know more adults that read good old Harry than kids. So I suppose I still ask, what is the difference?

Gabe

Well Gabe, I think you hit a big one on the language. But I think there's some other things that make a story YA or not YA. Now I'll admit I'm not an expert on this. In fact I skipped most YA books, just because they seemed simplistic to me.

First on the characters, they tend to be pretty extreme. I mean we know that Harry Potter has this amazing legacy from the beginning of the book. We know the Hardy Boys are amazing at whatever they do. A lot of teenagers (especially early teens) tend to see the world in terms of black and white. They want their heroes to be people they can relate to on one hand, but also people they can admire on the other.

Second on the plot, these tend to be fairly straightforward from what I can tell. I mean how many real twists are there in Harry Potter? Generally it's just the bad guy isn't who they think the bad guy is at the beginning of the book. And if we assume that Harry Potter is geared toward the age that Harry Potter is, then it doesn't start really getting dark until the fourth book. But even then the plots are fairly straightforward, even if they do add a few more subplots in.

Third on themes, I think in some ways the rebellion to oppresive authority is a theme. But I think the larger theme to most YA books is trying to fit into the world when you're different or special. I mean that's a big theme for the Harry Potter books. And I think that's probably the largest appeal to that age group. Now are these themes particular to YA? Of course not. I mean the major theme to Fight Club is the rebellion against a society that has forsaken them. But generally how they are handled is different. A bit more simplistic.

What I think I'm leading up to here, is that YA wears it's heart on it's sleeve. In general it's far less subtle or complicated than an adult book. The characters (especially the main characters) have a lot less shades of gray to their feelings.

In fact, honestly I think the age of the characters has very little to do with whether it's YA or not. I mean lets face it, the Once and Future King isn't really YA, even though it deals with a young King Arthur for at least part of it. Nor do I think, Robin Hobb's Farseer Trilogy is really YA even if it's a coming of age story in a lot of ways. But like I said this is all my opinion and please if anyone else has any comments or disagreements please make them. :)

Cameron

So, and not to be argumentitive but to play the devils advocate, when a new author is developing a story he or she needs to work on developing an intricite plot and make it not so black and white? Not to say you are wrong cameron but some of the things that you said help make a YA plot are mistakes of new authors who are trying to write an adukt book. So is this something that ne authors need to be aware of? Maybe there is a basic formula to ensure that a mistake of genre doesn't happen? I don't know, anyone else have any thoughts on this?

Gabe

No problem with being argumentative. I'll be honest Gabe, I don't know if there is a clear cut definition of YA. Mostly because in a large part it is a style genre, unlike things like fantasy, sci-fi or mystery where there are definite elements and formulas that those type of books follow.

Honestly, the more I think about this subject the more I become certain that it IS just the language that defines YA. I mean there are teenage characters in very adult books, and there's some very dark plots in YA books. But again, this isn't a genre I know a lot about. So that's about all I can say about it.

YA. Huh. I don't really know. I think it's a combination of a lot of things that have already been mentioned, including character attitudes, language (and not just profanity, but the level at which the general prose is written), content (i.e. sex, drugs, and other less than upright conduct), and plot structure (while not all coming of age plots are YA, that seems like a prevalent plot structure in YA, for example). I also think it has something to do with the levels of subtlety and the sophistication of the technique. Metaphor, for example, wouldn't be as prevalent or effective in YA as adult fiction.

I also think it has to do with market. Mostly to do with market. Does the novel appeal more to a younger audience or a more mature audience. Yes, that's a "we know it when we see it" answer, but writing, genre, and market are all nebulous things.

So a new question, as well. Two actually.

1. What genre(s) do we all write in? I write in literary, experimental, and supernatural/urban fantasy, with more of the last at the moment than anything else.

2. What do you all think of the genre versus mainstream/literary dichotomy? I mean, I know this might be throwing a lit firecracker into the group, but I heard more than once in college that literary is superior to genre in terms of artistry. And while that may be true for mass market cookie cutter genre, why are those the works that are allowed to represent genre? I don't mean wordy tomes should be representative either, but there are excellent writers, dare I say, even literary writers or experimental writers in the genres as well. So I guess this is also a question about genre bending.

-cc

Quote:


1. As a novelist, I am only interested in writing mystery and thriller at the moment, but one day would like to write horror, YA, and some children's books. I attempt to write literary short stories.

2. I think there is a big difference between literary and mainstream, though it is one of those distinctions that I know when I see, but it is hard to describe. I write screenplays for art films (the film version of "literary") and a 90 page manuscript goes through no less than 19 drafts and even then it gets tweaked by the director and actors. I think literary writing is similar. Few folks can crank out literary novels at a pace of one a year, whereas mainstream novelists can. I think literary writers pull their hearts out of their chests and wring out all the blood onto the page. Mainstream writers like myself might work up a little sweat and let a few drops of perspiration dot the paper, but it is not nearly as grueling an endeavor.

Mainstream sells more because it is more accessible. Literary is deeper and more personal, so fewer folks can identify with it.