So, how do you write?

Just some thoughts.

Has anyone ever advised you to re-word lines in your poem, making you feel uncomfortable? Do you write as you please or do you follow stringent methods that have become second nature to you? 

In the site's help section, there are tips for getting reviews. The final tip states "Write well. In the end, good writing trumps all." 

On this site, that is not always true. 

There are various reasons people sign up to free writing sites. Not everyone is concerned with rules like punctuation, meter, form, and other factors.  

How many just want to spill their unhappiness on the page? 

How many are loners who want to talk even if there's no answer?

How many have their own reasons for writing the way they do and would rather not get suggestions from others?

And how many wrote poems with obvious spelling errors and have still received favorable reviews?   

Would someone, intent on releasing their feelings in one sitting, void of revisions, perceive the fact that the rhythm is off in someone's poem? Notions and attitudes of what poetry should be, don't always pan out when browsing around the site. 

If you consider yourself a vehement spokesman for rules, happy to show results of having such knowledge...good on you. There are many similar-minded individuals who study poets and understand the structure and mechanisms behind what they write. They help keep the integrity of a long-standing art intact. 

However, there's no doubt you've seen many individuals who are not interested in such discipline. Formatting, metaphors, and grammar mean little when their main interest lies in emotions and expressing them in any way that avoids counting syllables, accents, lines or any method of study. Imagine then, offering suggestions under the assumption that they want to learn or be corrected. How determined do you think they'll be to correct any errors you point out? 

Intentions and assumptions have the potential to lead to unintended consequences. I learned this lesson when I offered advice plus another version of someone's poem I thought might give it more rhythm. I did this through a private message some time ago. I intended to help. I falsely assumed they would be grateful...I was wrong. They replied with an angry tone, uninterested in any future ideas I may offer.

I was naive. 

Pointing out spelling mistakes in someone's title seems fine. But go farther than that without being asked and you run the risk of wasting your time. You cannot assume they've been waiting for someone to come along and solve their writing problems. 

Case in point. How often have you read "ignore the grammar and spelling" in the author's notes? 

Does that mean, I don't care about the technical side of writing, I just want to know if you liked my story? 

Does it mean, I'll learn the technical side after I know I affected people with my poem first? 

Does it mean, I'll learn all that grammar stuff later? 

And why is it written at the end and not the beginning as a warning to any unsuspecting reader? 

Despite this, some are able to get agreeable comments regardless of any errors. 

People who aspire to be good writers fill the online page, I'm sure. And they don't mind critiques. They are willing to take advice without feeling insulted and may even desire the information they think will further their skills.  

What about those who assume they've written a good piece of poetry that's sure to be noticed, only to discover the opposite? The answer may lie in the fact that people don't know what to say in a review, or the writer didn't wait long enough before posting. Therefore, he/she may miss the mark and fall short. Many leave because they think they're no good. The lack of feedback is another reason.

Would you like to hear someone say....Your metaphors are striking. I see symbolism in this piece, let me explain....?

Would you rather hear....this is really good?

Or would you be content to hear nothing at all?  

I think the majority of people want to hear good things about what they've written. Make no mistake about that. They want someone to enjoy, relate, or just expound on how much they like what they've read. Notice I said the majority. Some, from what I've been told, simply don't care what others opinions on their writing is. They won't even respond. So be it. I guess they're the ones content with no reviews. 

So how do you write? 

I say you should write any way you want. And if you're successful in getting noticed, perhaps you've found a niche in writing as well as a style that's all your own. If not, keep trying. 

But most of all, keep writing. 

Reviews

[Jacob Clifford]

Very thoughtful. More than anything, Writerscafe seems like--to me at least--a social website. A lot of people just use their writing as a form of communication. I love how at the end of the story, after mentioning the numerous reasons people write and what they want, you say to just keep writing. That really is the most important thing.

When I came to this site, I was looking for other people who could give me advice and help me grow my writing skills, and I hoped I could do the same for others. While that has happened, most exchanges have been something like "I like this story, keep it up", or "I like X character" without the reasoning behind why those elements were good or not good.

I really like this piece. It feels like a collection of thoughts, but it's very in depth and well written.

[Relic]

Thank you for the review Clifford. :)

[barleygirl]

There's a heavy dose of judgment here, even tho (for the most part) you attempt to present a balanced picture of what you've experienced here at the cafe. Since I am one of those reviewers who do not bother with correcting details (often disparaged as you do here quite heavily) -- what I feel is trivial stuff & you seemingly disagree -- let me explain my method. Sometimes helping to make a writer feel like continuing to write is, in the end, the one thing that seems to reap the most benefit as I watch fledgling writers develop over the years. If you look at one poem & pick out the flaws, this may seem justifiable & even irresistible in the moment. But over the long haul, a reviewer gets better results when an amount of time is spent nurturing a fledgling writer rather than correcting him/her. I used to think like you do, when I first started here -- that mostly frivolous stuff was going on here & I wanted to preserve the artform by seeing it done correctly. But we are living in a worldwide milieu of different versions of English -- who are we to say what is the proper way of writing English anymore? English has been distorted around the world & we might as well accept that. It isn't a function of this website being "free" or "unprofessional" -- it's a reality of our uber-connected world. People speak all kinds of different English around the world & I have come to enjoy the way English "sounds different" when it comes from different cultures & peoples. In this essay, I feel you trying to come around in a begrudging way, as if you still can't let go of the way you think it "SHOULD BE" (altho you try to present a seemingly-open-minded spiel). But I would rather watch a young person grow more confident in writing (over months) than to see a perfectly executed poem in some forgotten moment (((HUGS))) Fondly, Margie

[Stella Armour]

I write both ways, in free form and in form. i enjoy the challenge of writing in form to be honest, but that doesn't make it better poetry than free form. I must add tho' that i do not like to see completely unedited poems because without some kind of punctuation they don't always say what the writer intends to say and are difficult to grasp.I taught myself to write in many forms before i felt brave enough to write in free-form , for many it is the other way round lol. Just enjoy the art you create, like a painting... traditional or abstract.

[Relic]

Nicely said, Stella. Thank you.

[...]

I change several times my methods . In past i make lot of re-writing . But I feel it there is something missing some real spark. When I write free verse and without aiming for something. My writing is more relaxing. Before i was also take this web site too serious . Now I am more relax . I am here cause i know any publisher on the world will publish me. Too many mistakes in write words. Also I cannot keep one line of meaning. I don't think on this site is not so many really good writers including me. For me is more about fun. I think Jim Jarmusch one time said , Best advice is not advice.

[Relic]

Having fun while writing is important. Many become published writers because they love it so much.

Thanks for the review.

[...]

Yes maybe that's truth . I think is was good write this article . Since this site don't have any forum. I always enjoyed if someone post like this. So thank you too.

[Ghania]

True and very THOUGHTFUL.
I can relate to what you have written. It may feel a little offensive but I think criticism is what makes you and your writing what you are. It nurtures and makes you progressive when you have a pen to write with, :)
And yes, sometimes the thing that matters is feelings and sentiments that are urging us to pen them down without the boundaries of errors,
by being indifferent to grammatical errors and we DO it. We Write.
O yes, and I loved the last line.
Keep writing! (even if it is rambling or whatsoever!)
Fingers crossed :D

[Relic]

Thank you very much Nerdy. :)

[Ghania]

You're Welcome. :)

[Chloie Kato]

I'm really happy to see someone articulate this. I appreciate this so much.

[Relic]

Well, thanks very much Chloie. :)

[AprilRN1210]

awwww now, you got me thinking and analyzing myself and my interactions with this Tim.. which is of course, your intention---I assume :P

I can see from almost every side of this.. how do we review? is it the same for every piece? same goes for writing.. just because we write one emotional and don't care about the grammar and spelling, does it not mean the next one can be in an effort to better ourselves and wish for critique? Just me stating how i feel... that is how i write, that is how I feel.. honest, and with good intentions.. Have I ever given grammar suggestions, or editing advice? heck yes.. do I do it for all that I see? heck no... think just like how I write from moment to moment and piece to piece ---that's exactly how I review.. but I treasure each poem written and each piece I read. it all boils down to one word--respect. I have always enjoyed the way you effortlessly write with purpose and focus. makes the reader want to sit and have a discussion with you on exactly how they feel and why they do what they do.. (kinda like I just did, right?) awesome as usual

[Relic]

Thank you April. I think it all has to do with how you look at this site and your goals. Mine have changed somewhat over time. I do appreciate reviews like yours though. Thank you my friend. :)

[AprilRN1210]

yeah... I remember when you first brought me here many moons ago... My view and goals have changed somewhat as well... I can tell you one thing though... I am forever grateful I met you, I am forever grateful to be able to call you my friend, and I am forever grateful that I get to read your writing and hear your thoughts on mine.. that will never change :)

[Relic]

Okay, come here, give me a hug and kiss. :P

[AprilRN1210]

always for you :*

[mattavelli]

Hello, Relic! :)
A while back I found responding to read requests was taking the pleasure from the site, so I turned them off. At the same time, I stopped sending out my own. Since then, my reviews received have decreased by around 80% in the first 24 hours after posting. I don't think my quality has fallen so sharply. Haha

I receive suggestions for changes to my writing and they usually do make me feel uncomfortable, but I consider them and reply.
I do all my writing on a gen 1 iPad, not very romantic. It's mostly poetry with rhythm and rhyme because I like it. I'm very picky with almost every syllable, so one can safely assume that each phrase and thought reads as I meant it to. And, while I enloy the puzzle of constructing phrases and molding thoughts into patterns that fit in an overall pattern, I realize that not everybody does.  I assume that most who read my poems don't even notice it fully. In either case there is feeling shared. That is my goal, to express, communicate.
I once rhymed "god" with "flawed" because I felt it communicated irony.
"Children of god, pity my flawed and dull sense of self worth."
I once wrote a love poem that was paraphrased Romeo and Juliet spliced with nonsense. I went through it and misspelled a bunch of words, even the title, and posted it here on wc. I received ten reviews, all compliments, some thinking it was funny for what it was, some seeming to take it seriously.
There was another post on writerscafe where I left a comment that some people write for themselves, while other's write for the reader. Some trolls gave me attention for that. Haha
We all write to express. We post for attention.

I think the reviews I give have more to do with the number of reviews I receive than my writing does. I was away from this site for five years, came back, and there were two reviews waiting for me. Haha... We tread water or drown, the bottom line rules all.
I'll keep writing. You keep at it too. I tried the new Discovery feature and your name popped up first. Go figure. Haha

[Relic]

Thanks for your thoughts Matt. I've only sent a read request twice in all the time I've been here. I shut the option to receive them off too. I also tried that discover option and found it useless. Poems from seven and eight years ago popped up. Odd.

[DoormanDan]

Very nicely written, and I couldn't agree more with your last few lines. Personally, I've spent years trying to develop my style in a way that challenges me to think of the most creative and energized poetic devices and usage of the English language that I possibly can, but not without sacrificing the story that is meant to be told in whatever I write. I've often been called out for "using words that are too big" or "writing pieces that are too complex for the average reader", and that is true...because that's how I want them to be. Essentially, I just want to challenge any willing readers' minds in some sense, and hopefully help them walk away from my pieces a little bit more knowledgable than they were before. It's something I've been very passionate about for at least five years at this point.

Coming back to what you've written here, I've been in that same boat as you to an extent. I've made suggestions to somebody before, and have either been ignored or even lashed out at for no real justifiable reason. If people don't want others to critique their work in a certain way or at all, then they need to make use of the Author's Note section. Otherwise, it's all fair game in cyber-world of Writer's Cafe. If somebody tells me "don't critique grammar", I'll happily oblige, but if they just say nothing, because of what this site is technically for, it's implied that they are open to all types of feedback.

I'll wrap up this long post now. You chose a good topic to write about, as I clearly had a lot to say on the subject!! I've always enjoyed hearing your musings and thoughts, Relic, and this piece was no exception. :)

[Relic]

Thanks so much for your thoughts DD. :)