I Wonder 🤔 Who Would Pay For Café Membership?

MEMBERS' INTEREST MESSAGE

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🌿 HERE'S MY 2¢ ON THIS (I think) ALL IMPORTANT QUESTION 🌿

(A couple'a days ago I sent the following message to the Café owners, sharing it with a fellow member for his input.)

Hey, Guys!

I hope this little note finds you well and prospering,

You may notice or have already received a message that the "Online Writers" page < https://www.writerscafe.org/writers/online/ > has been stuck for about a week … will you, please, fix it for us? 🙏


And, I'd like to thank you for the years of free enjoyment on WritersCafe and all the work and $$ you must have put into it to keep our home-away-from-home alive.


Something I wish you'd consider: we really enjoy the Café's system enough that I think if you made the onsite features fully functional again, the members would be willing to pay a reasonable fee for membership (perhaps, even offering levels of membership [monthly, yearly, lifetime, etc] with basic or increasingly advanced features, and so forth), allowing you to do without so many frustratingly agitating junk ads for income to support the site. Perhaps, with a free or very low cost “Basic” membership with “fundamental” features for those who want a good place to write, share, and learn, who cannot afford a fee but are passionate about writing (like teens, for instance, or the needy).

It might prove useful to send out a note to the members for some feedback on this idea, eh?

Just a hopeful thought shared, but it would be great for now if you can just make the "Online Writers" page functional for us again.

Contact me anytime.

Thanks for the ear! ~ Richard🖌

(fellow member’s response)

I came here originally because it was free. There are many who only come here occasionally, are they willing to pay? What about the people who hardly get any comments, would they want to pay? Is Charlie (someone who never responds) dependable enough to improve the site after all these years? Hmm?

(my reply)

Well, M'Good Pal,

   This is the only free site I've ever served on that had virtually no issues … that is, until they accidentally deleted everyone's writing, and when we came back is when the faux pas glitches began … a little bit here, a little bit there, and so forth … afterwards, the ads began creeping-in.

    Since, a lot of stuff has gone awry, until we're where we are now.

   Who knows what members will go for and what the owners will actually do with a nice enticement to inspire their efforts?

   I think the site's worth saving, because it's basic function is the most user friendly on the internet, but without a try like this (or, something better ... if you, or someone else has anything to offer), or I'd give the Café a year at most before it craters, and quite possibly before that.

   A sensible person realizes no internet site can survive for free; it takes a lot of $$ and effort to keep a site like this up and running, must less what's required to maintain and improve it when required. Every free site I've ever served on has folded … some lasted for many years, but they've all folded, nonetheless.

Ya got a better, more positive idea, M'Friend? : )

(fellow member’s response)

If you bring forth your idea Charlie might ask you to be a monitor. 

(my reply)

That’s no big deal,

   I've been monitor/moderator on a couple of of sites; it can be time-consuming, and become quite complex at times. But, overall, it can be interesting … even entertaining.

INTERESTING INFORMATION

   There is a new ad-free site a few here have recently joined called "Stars Rite" <https://starsrite.com/> you might consider giving a shot. I find it a bit complex to navigate, and some of the features are a bit cumbersome to use, but it has a lot of positive points, too. Still, it's free, the members are friendly, and it's geared toward accommodating the members' needs and enjoyment … they seem to be making functional improvements almost weekly.

   Also, there are a good number of folk who've migrated there from a free site that's just shut-down after many years in service, "Deep Underground" … I joined there in 2004, and was still a member when it cratered.

   Here's an excerpt from their farewell letter to the membership: "Deep Underground Poetry was a poetry and creative writing community founded in 1999. The website ran at this web address from August 2009 until 12th May 2025. DU Poetry was home to over 40,000 members during those 15 years and hosted around half a million creative works (poetry, prose, short stories and spoken word)."

   You can read the entire farewell letter here <https://deepundergroundpoetry.com/> … very interesting, and oh-so relevant to our own current WritersCafé situation.

"PS: please, feel free to pass this along...."

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Author's Note

"MY DEAR LADY & FELLOW MEMBERS"
It would be great to receive your input on this all-important, concerning issue.
✍

PS: Relic also asked < https://www.writerscafe.org/writing/HouseofRelics/2955826/ >
😃

Reviews

[Davidgeo]

According to my unprofessional internet based data... this site makes the owner about 45-65K per year. (based on publicly available analytics and estimated ad sales revenue).

Charlie is not going to paywall this site for less than 45K per year. Divide 45K by 12 (months)... that's 3,750 per month. What would be a fair and non exclusionary monthly fee? 3 dollars per month? We would need somehting like like 1,250 users willing to cough up 3 dollars every month. Cut that in half... even then, no way we are going to find 625 users willing to submit their cc info and 1.50 a month. Unless Charlie decides to take a paycut... this site will never be paywalled.

[Richard&#128396;]

Thank you again, Davidgeo, for your input 🙏

Note that I've added some "INTERESTING INFORMATION" to this post you might find useful.

[Davidgeo]

This site is going to be around for a while, it's passive income. I don't think Charlie is totally absentee from this site either. The reason why the "online writer" tab is frozen probably has to do with bots. DUP was an entirely different scenario, the online enviroment is much different now. Even sites like these will make positive cash flow with basically no effort and a pretty small hosting fee. This site isn't going anywhere, but, it's not going to improve unless there is a cultural shift in entertainment consumption. It's not financially rational to do anything with this site other than maintain the absolute basics. Did you know that in the first issue of The Scientific American there were three random poems they stuck in there as if they were "articles" because poetry was very, very popular at that time... 1845, august 28th. Man no one cares about poetry or non pop creative writing anymore. I think we are lucky that a site like this seems to be relatively self sustainable. There is only very basic moderation here, this place is like a time capsule in a way. You can pretty much post whatever you want. That's rare for sites like these. We are actually a very civil community considering there is no actual moderator on this site.

[Davidgeo]

Most of us are civil anyway. I'm only civil sometimes.

[lightsong]

Well I don't want to sound pessimistic but I thought by now You would be aware that there are no real "monitors/moderators" who care about the cafe, so if You got to be a monitor here that would be so nice because I am pretty sure that instead of us seeing 352&465 of useless adds, posts and members, we might see many sweet flowers and creative words. If a fee will help the cafe to improve, I think many of the writer will pay, this site still have the most amazing features.

I got to see your post as I was scrolling down my page and poems. I thought it's good to leave a small opinion here. Hope You are all well Syr.

[Richard&#128396;]

Thank you, Dear Ghounwah, for your input 🙏

Note that I've added some "INTERESTING INFORMATION" to this post you might find useful.

[lightsong]

I read the new information, Thank You.

[Richard&#128396;]

Always,
You're ever-so gratefully welcome, Dear Sonnet 😌

[John the Baptist]

This site is priceless. It not only has allowed me to express myself artistically, but has also allowed me to meet many interesting and likeminded people. Of course I would be willing to pay for its continuance.

[Richard&#128396;]

Thank you, John, for your input 🙏

Note that I've added some "INTERESTING INFORMATION" to this post you might find useful.

[Titilayo Sarah Eguridu]

If there ever was a place I called my virtual home…it would be Writer’s cafe.
I would gladly pay a reasonable monthly fee to support the site’s continuous improvement.
Thanks Richard for championing this cause.

[Richard&#128396;]

Thank you, Titilayo, for your input 🙏

Note that I've added some "INTERESTING INFORMATION" to this post you might find useful.

[Chris Shaw]

I have read all the responses here Richard before replying to you. I too would be prepared to pay a subscription for this site providing it is maintained and moderated to a reasonable standard. I love this poetry site, it is a second home but the technical issues are at times just too frustrating to persevere with. Good luck with this. Best regards

Chris

[Richard&#128396;]

Thank you, Chris, for your input 🙏

Note that I've added some "INTERESTING INFORMATION" to this post you might find useful.

[jacob erin-cilberto]

I used to write Charlie when there were problems and he would attend to them and respond to me personally. Those days seem to have left like a setting sun.
Been here since 2008 or 9 and this, I consider, is my site. I have met several people here who are now very close friends...and I have gained so much inspiration from the other poets here.
This has almost become like one of my organs...and I might lose breath without it.
Would I pay...yes...if I could be sure there would be action on the other end.
I agree with Divya...not sure the spammers and "riffraff" would pay to stay here.
j.

[Richard&#128396;]

Thank you, Jacob, for your input 🙏

Note that I've added some "INTERESTING INFORMATION" to this post you might find useful.

[MarthaKlokke]

Hello Richard I've been here on and off. But deleted most of my poetry -The reason? AI is feeding on here. A lady feeds our poetry to AI and reposts as their own reviews. She pinches our stuff and feeds it to Ai. Ive warned her but she blocked me. So AI is the big one. Then theres the psychos like JessyJacob who slander members from make believe worlds (she has bad schizophrenia but it still causes her victims distress) and ofcourse theres a genocide watszisname porn pic poster. We need moderators like there used to be. We need Bots to spot AI users-kick them out and get glitches ironed and till then I'll focus on my gardening instead. Thank you.

[Richard&#128396;]

Thank you, Martha, for your input 🙏

Note that I've added some "INTERESTING INFORMATION" to this post you might find useful.

[Davidgeo]

I've submitted some of my personal details to this site. It's not that bad, I'm pretty sure I'd have been banned by now if I didn't toss Charlie a few sheckles once or twice a year. But... ha... um... I don't recommend ever doing something like that without using a vpn of some kind. It won't be money that will be asked of you on sites like these in the future, it will be direct access to your personal data with your real name "officially" attached to it. Just wait, soon they will ask for a picture of your government issued ID. (sadly, until AI is officially regulated by multiple governments in unison... we have to deal with crypto scams beating us over the head on sites like these). This is a small, abnormal site though, if enough people get together and work something out with old Chuckles it might work... he's not making that much off things as it is. But I do not think there is enough of us willing to pay a fee to incentivize him to paywall the site. I'd love to hear alternative options but, what is happening here is happening everywhere and it's probably not going to change for at least 3 years.

[Richard&#128396;]

Thank you, Davidgeo, for your input 🙏

Note that I've added some "INTERESTING INFORMATION" to this post you might find useful.

[DIVYA]

I would pay for it just like all the regular, long standing members would, who've been here, grown here and received so much from this site. The entry /subscription fee could keep the riffraff out and provide the owners with a financial incentive to take care of the site. It needs a touch of exclusivity and it deserves it.
As for moderators, indeed, we need them to throw out chronic nuisance-creators and set some deterrents in place. But going by the politics that exists here, perhaps, wouldn't it be best for an external moderator, previously unknown to the cafe to be appointed? Just my thoughts.
Thank so much for your efforts in this regard. It really means a lot to everyone emotionally, intellectually invested in this site.

[Richard&#128396;]

Thank you, DIVYA, for your input 🙏

Note that I've added some "INTERESTING INFORMATION" to this post you might find useful.

[Titilayo Sarah Eguridu]

Go it.
I'll read through it again.

[Kelly Scheppers]

I support your convictions, Richard, but I think our hands are tied until the owner decides what HE wants to do. I think it's obvious Charlie doesn't want anything to do with the responsibility anymore, that's why this site is going down and taking us with it. To be cautious, I would suggest people start removing or deleting some of their work, just in case this site shuts down without word or warning. I hope we can get this turned around, peacefully. If only Charlie would have kept communications opened, replied to us when a problem came up and addressed it, we wouldn't be dealing with all of this now. I'll back you, Richard, and anyone else who gets behind this Cafe, to save our home! Personally speaking, I think you would make a fabulous moderator!

[Richard&#128396;]

Thank you, Kelly, for your input 🙏

Note that I've added some "INTERESTING INFORMATION" to this post you might find useful.

[Green]

Out of curiosity, how did you reach out to the owners? I've been told he will respond to facebook messages, but I'm not all that comfortable using that forum to contact someone I do not know. If it was through a form on here, then he will not see it. Whatever mailboxes these things go to, no one is manning them. I already shared my thoughts on Relic's post, but I'll copy and paste them again just to keep it easy. I get lost if I try to jump between pages too much myself.
The original:
I’d be willing to pay but I also think that’s more of treating the symptoms and not the problem. And I think people would just get more frustrated when they’re paying money and the site isn’t being taken care of. I for one would be very irritated to pay a fee and still have to put up with all the spam, unsolicited sexual content, and users intent on abusing the system. I don’t even think the problem is a lack of revenue. The amounts of ads being allowed to run on here for free would suggest there’s no interest in using it to make money. If that is all he wanted, cleaning everything up even once a year would easily help that.
I’ve said it before and I’ll stick with this theory until it also proves to only be good in concept, but I think volunteer moderators would be a good idea. He wouldn’t have to pay them, he could continue to be uninvolved, but the site wouldn’t be so insane all the time.

[Richard&#128396;]

Thank you, Green, for your input 🙏

Note that I've added some "INTERESTING INFORMATION" to this post you might find useful.

[Green]

I have indeed checked out StarsRite and I’ve seen a few familiar faces as well. I could not recommend it more personally. It’s not perfect but they actively work on it and the moderation is current and involved.